The Twilight Saga

Do you think that Jacob was drawn to Bella because of Renesmee?

I believe so.Looking at it from a infautuation angle I think that he was just was in love with the egg inside of Bella but thought it was Bella who he loved?
We also don't know how strong imprinting really is so. I'm thinking in eclipse when bella had a vision could it have been Renesmee doing that she does have the power to show or picture what she thinks and wants.I wonder if the Renesmee was actually Jacob's Bella?

But this is my belief or opinion so ill respect what you say but probably will not agree with it.

Tags: Jacob, Jake, Meyer, Nessie, Rensmee, Stephanie, Wolf

Views: 834

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

In Greek there are four different words that we translate LOVE.  The words for love are:

i. Eros was one word for love. It described, as we might guess from the word itself, erotic love. It refers to sexual love. 

ii. Storge was the second word for love. It refers to family love, the kind of love there is between a parent and child, or between family members in general.

iii. Philia is the third word for love. It speaks of a brotherly friendship and affection. It is the love of deep friendship and partnership. It might be described as the highest love of which man, without God's help, is capable of.

 

iv. Agape is the fourth word for love. It is a love that loves without changing. It is a self-giving love that gives without demanding or expecting repayment. It is love so great that it can be given to the unlovable or unappealing. It is love that loves even when it is rejected. Agape love gives and loves because it wants to; it does not demand or expect repayment from the love given. It gives because it loves; it does not love in order to receive. According to Alan Redpath, we get our English word agony from agape. "It means the actual absorption of our being in one great passion." (Redpath) Strictly speaking, agape can't be defined as "God's love," because men are said to agape sin and the world (John 3:19 and 1 John 2:15). But it can be defined as a sacrificial, giving, absorbing kind of love. The word has little to do with emotion; it has much to do with self-denial for the sake of another.

Pinkie:

The 1 Corinthians 13 love is agape love. It also appears that agape love is the only valid definition that you give to love.  

What is your opinion of Eros, Storge, and Philia love?  Do you see these type of love expressed in Jacob and Bella?  (I could have used other characters but did not due to staying on subject of the topic, which is Jacob and Bella) 

Pinkie:

The 1 Corinthians 13 love is agape love. It also appears that agape love is the only valid definition that you give to love.  

What is your opinion of Eros, Storge, and Philia love?  Do you see these type of love expressed in Jacob and Bella?  (I could have used other characters but did not due to staying on subject of the topic, which is Jacob and Bella) 

Light,

If 1 Cor. 13 is agape love only for you, then it is agape love only for you.  If you want to assume this is the only love I define, then that is your choice too.

As for defining the other areas of love you have mentioned; yes, I most likely will do so again much like I have covered them several times on this site in the past.

Yes I use all types of love to cover all the characters.

Light, the topic you chose was a counter to my personal views about what is love and not a thread topic of Jacob and Bella and how that connects to Nessie which I do see as different and yes I do believe this was intentional on your part.  My past experiences here has afforded me the awareness that there should be caution toward those who willfully target other's personal views instead of the series topics and for those who do not know the difference.  That is not an accusation but a statement of what I have determined to do on this site.

You have also made clear for me that you felt that I was challenging your views elsewhere.  Light, my asking you questions on the other topics and stating my opinions were within the topics found in the story and not your personal views of anything.  My intentions were to see if I could find a reason to validate what you said as it was presented as a counter to my views.  Yours seems to be to counter whatever I say.  If that was not the case, you would not had quoted me instead of the thread for your response.  (you have done this at least twice now) Although in the end I did not find your views plausible for the mere fact that Bella's human scent would be present and far to easily found on Edward's body if no where else, that for me is within the margin of appropriate discussions because it is all related to things IN the series.

When you stated yet another counter on another thread, I would like to think I did not challenge your personal beliefs as if to suggest what you believe as a person should be challenged for the sake of a book discussion.  I asked you for clarifications and nothing more.   You have every right to your personal views of suicide and what invalidates trusts so I would not try to change that if I should differ.   As I said to Barbara on this issue, I will say to you...I accept your views as yours.  However, I will say to you unlike to Barbara that I am going to do my best to avoid responses and people who do not apply the differences between challenging a personal belief and a view from the story.   I harbor no ill feelings toward your comments in the past because they were just your perspectives which were different from my own and that does not bother me.  When you purposely design your responses to counter my personal beliefs?  When you assume my positions in ignorance and your response to me are about what I personally believe?  When I see that pattern no where else but toward me?  I have seen this in the past toward me and yes, it does feel like you come with an all too familiar agenda.  I will not be playing those games so if you do not get responses from me from now on, it will mean you crossed from what I find appropriate.

First off I apologize because I didn't realize that it was too personal (crossing a line) for you to talk about love.  I find your defensiveness to be rather shocking. 

Secondly, how is the discussion on the topic of love not personal views.  Love is personal.  I don't understand why Barbara was able to ask question regarding your deffinition of love and it was offensive for me to do the same. 

As for 1 Cor. 13 being agapa love FOR ME, that would not be an accurate statement.  It is very simple to go back to the original Greek and find out which form of love was written by the writer. I'll give another example of what I mean. 

In John 21:15-17, Jesus asks Peter if he loves him and Peter responds that he does love him.  It is very simple to know which greek word is used for love in this passage. 

  • Jesus asked, "do you agapao me?"

Peter replied, "I phileo you."

  • Jesus asked, "do you agapao me?"

Peter replied, "I phileo you."

  • Jesus asked, "do you phileo me?"

Peter replied, "I phileo you." 

Does this example make sense to you?  I have gone through the Bible and made word comparisons for over 15 years.  It is a process that maybe I take for granted and find rather simple which could easily be seen as more complex to someone else. 

Again, I apologize for my words being offensive to you. 

First off I apologize because I didn't realize that it was too personal (crossing a line) for you to talk about love.  

I did not say it was too personal for discussion.  I said personal views should not be the source of challenges.  I will not challenge your personal beliefs and I will not respond to challenges of mine.  The story?  Yes.  A personal topic directly IN the story? Most likely.  Meyer?  Yes.  A hypothetical?  Probably.  What we all PERSONALLY believe?  NO!  IF you feel differently?  Fine.  I am sure others will agree with you and engage you on that.  I will not.  I will not challenge you or anyone on their personal beliefs.  It has nothing to do with that being too personal and everything to do with being respectful.  Two separate and distinctive issues!

I find your defensiveness to be rather shocking. 

So be it.

Secondly, how is the discussion on the topic of love not personal views.  Love is personal.  

I do not understand why Barbara was able to ask question regarding your deffinition of love and it was offensive for me to do the same. 

Okay, I find comparisons to who I talk to and how a bit creepy.  It reads too needy of MY attention.  (Just so you know.)

As for 1 Cor. 13 being agapa love FOR ME, that would not be an accurate statement.  It is very simple to go back to the original Greek and find out which form of love was written by the writer. I'll give another example of what I mean. 

LOL there goes the sincerity of that initial apology.  

In John 21:15-17, Jesus asks Peter if he loves him and Peter responds that he does love him.  It is very simple to know which greek word is used for love in this passage. 

  • Jesus asked, "do you agapao me?"

Peter replied, "I phileo you."

  • Jesus asked, "do you agapao me?"

Peter replied, "I phileo you."

  • Jesus asked, "do you phileo me?"

Peter replied, "I phileo you." 

Does this example make sense to you?  

What I get from this is you feel you are being clever in continuing in the same vein you did in your last post.

I have gone through the Bible and made word comparisons for over 15 years.  It is a process that maybe I take for granted and find rather simple which could easily be seen as more complex to someone else. 

LOL What a great apology you have here.  Now you have studied for years and as this is addressed to me, I would be the person who finds it more complex of an issue than you do? Okay ummmm....oh yes 'Light'....yes you are far smarter and well informed of love and scriptures and I just can't keep up so hopefully others will.

Again, I apologize for my words being offensive to you. 

I promise you NOTHING here has offended me.  For it to have done so, I would have needed to feel spiritual or intellectual intimidation by your thoughts and I don't at all...just the nagging feeling that you are someone I have had to deal with in the past and even if you are not?  The likeness is far too close for me to bother to give any of this any real thought.  So please do not worry about what you said..I have zero concern or thoughts on this at all.  I am sure you will do whatever you want to do and I will do the same.

I didn't realize that I was saying anything that was challenging when it comes to your views on love.  I acknowledged the four type of love in Greek and clarified that 1 Cor 13 indicates agape love.  That isn't a challenge. 

Based on your detailed analysis of each verse, it went into detail of agape love, I thought I was confirming something that you already confirmed.  So how is that a challenge? 

I would always read a topic thread fully before making a comment so why would comparing a conversation (with Barbara) that is in this very thread be creepy?  It seems disrespectful to make a comment without reading the previous comments. 

I'm still not understanding your stance.  You say that you aren't offended (which I am glad), and yet you sound extremely offended (which is confusing).  It seems so ironic since I thought originally that I was agreeing with you.  I also didn't mean that the process was too complex in that your mind couldn't handle it, lol.  That just seems silly.  I simply meant that it can be a tedious process, which would have been a far better word choice on my part.

 

I thought I was acknowledging your views on agape love and asked a simple question about the other three types of love.  It was not a challenge but a question.  I was kind of excited that someone else used the same Biblical definition of love.  Then I directed the other three types of love back to Jacob and Bella, which is the topic of the discussion. 

I find it hard to believe that Jake was drawn to Bella because of Renesmee-we know they supposedly had a bond. But Renesmee was not even born and an egg inside of Bella could have not formed the 'bond' it just seems odd and strange for that to happen. No one even knew that Renesmee would be born-Bella thought it was going to be a Boy-EJ! Therefore, I do not think that the 'Bond' between Jake and Bella was because of Renesmee. 

That would have been somewhat strange if it turned out to be true-although If that might have happened-Leah might have found her Imprint...possibly. Just an off topic idea..but I will not expand on that, as it was just a random idea.

Therefore, I do not do not think Jake was drawn to Bella because of Renesmee. There must have been something else that he fell for. Even if Bella loved him on some level, she didn't necessarily love him as much as he wanted her to.

I think the vision she had in Eclipse-was Bella wondering 'what if' she picked Jacob and was not with Edward. I do not believe it was Renesmee as stated above.

Light@

In Greek there are four different words that we translate LOVE.  The words for love are:

i. Eros was one word for love. It described, as we might guess from the word itself, erotic love. It refers to sexual love. 

ii. Storge was the second word for love. It refers to family love, the kind of love there is between a parent and child, or between family members in general.

iii. Philia is the third word for love. It speaks of a brotherly friendship and affection. It is the love of deep friendship and partnership. It might be described as the highest love of which man, without God's help, is capable of.

I think that Storge and Philia cover Bella and Jacob. They seem to be like brother/sister at times, but also they feel affection for each other. It could be possible that Jake felt Eros love towards Bella-but she did not reciprocate that kind of Love.

Infinite Love, Do you mean the egg or the baby?  That is, you do not think he was drawn to the egg or drawn to the baby as it formed?  Or do you mean both?

I mean the egg from Twilight-to Eclipse

In Breaking Dawn the theory would fit more as Renesmee was in Bella's womb when Bella was pregnant. but he thought it was Bella he was in love with.

Thank you.

What are you thanking me for?

The additional explanation of your views that I asked of you.

I do not find examples of Agape love between Jacob and Bella, but I do find examples of Eros and Philia.  

Both Jacob and Bella demonstrate Philia love for each other and acknowledge that love to each other. Most fans of the serious (even those who dislike Jacob and Bella together) acknowledge the friendship between Jacob and Bella and friendship goes to the heart of Philia love. 

Bella claims to have a Storge love for Jacob, but her actions don't support what Bella says.  Bella not having a sibling might explain why she didn't really understand the difference between the two loves.  Bella seems to have an odd family relationship with both her father and mother (Bella has a strained relationship with her father and her mother is more of a best friend than a mother) and so Bella's idea of family love might be a little different than others.   

Bella's declaration that Jacob was right when she kisses him is her realization that her feelings were not Storge love but in fact Eros love.  Bella once again acknowledges her new realization of love for him when she visits him after he was injured.  Again the love that Bella spoke of is Eros love.  It is also Eros love that develops in New Moon, which can be seen most easily when Bella almost kisses Jacob before the phone rings.  Yes Bella still had doubts, but I see it as the seed of love was planted in New Moon, and that seed blooms when Bella actually acknowledges it in Eclipse.     

Bella's love for Edward (and his for her) mostly resemble Agape love as well as Eros and Philia.  So Bella never really does love Jacob in the same way that she loves Edward.  In my opinion Agape love out ranks Eros love, so for Bella to quickly choose Edward over Jacob doesn't discredit her love, but reflects the different type of love.     

RSS

© 2014   Created by Hachette Book Group.

Report an Issue | Guidelines  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service