Jacob's and Bella's Kiss
I am always changing my mind through new moon and eclipse who would be better for Bella! I want to know whether she really meant that kiss or was just trying to keep Jacob from doing something silly?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Pinkie on -
Actually, they all are contradictory; but as this discussion is about the 'kiss' I will limit it to that topic.
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Permalink Reply by JJ on -
I like the term "storyteller" that you use to describe Meyers because I think it describes her well.
I think that her writing style is very gut driven or character driven if that makes more sense. She simply writes whatever comes out of her head and onto the page, initially without a lot of thought. (I do think she thinks later) She has mentioned that the characters talk in her mind and explain the story to her.
Examples:
-- She has mentioned that in Twilight, despite Jacob telling Bella about the wolves and the "cold ones" that at that time only vampires existed in her mind. Even after Bella's dream where Jacob turns into a wolf, at that time it was simply a dream and not actual "foreshadowing". It was later that Meyers decided to use that dream in the development of NM.
-- She has almost mentioned that when she would write Rosalie that she could feel that Rose did not like Bella, but even as the writer she didn't really understand why. So Meyers continues to write and then later as she dives deeper into Rose's character, THEN Meyers understands why.
-- She has said that she doesn't know who Embry's father is because character hasn't told her that information.
My point being that she is a very, very character driver author. And I think that the characters drove the relationship between Jacob and Bella. That a relationship developed that possibly Meyers was not aware of herself. We know that Bella missed Edward very badly in NM and therefore it made sense that she felt better in the presence of her friend Jacob. Because of the way that I believe Meyers right, it is very very possible that Bella fell in love with Jacob without Meyers really understanding until Bella herself also understands it (which isn't until Eclipse).
I do believe that there is evidence of Bella's feelings for Jacob, but you have to look for it in order to find it. I also believe that you have to read what Bella says, through the filter of what Meyers says, which is that Bella falls in love with Jacob in NM.
-- Chapter 11 pg 253 -- "The terror that was always foremost in my thoughts usually distracted me from the fact that another week had passed, and Jacob still hadn't called me. But when I was able to concentrate on my normal life - if my life was really ever normal - this upset me.
I missed him horribly.
It had been bad enough to be alone before I was scared silly. Now, more than ever, I yearned for his carefree laugh and his infectious grin. I needed the safe sanity of his homemade garage and his warm hand around my cold fingers.
... I wanted to believe that it was worry for his friend that was occupying all his time, not that he was just giving up on me.
... On Wed. I called every half hour until after eleven at night, desperate to hear the warmth of Jacob's voice.
-- I know that this easily could be Bella worried about her friend Jacob, but looking through the filter that Bella was in love with Jacob at some point in the book (New Moon) I believe it is very possible that what I quoted above is Meyers showing us Bella's feelings for Jacob are stronger than for a friend.
Same chapter, page 273
Not as bad! Not as bad! my mind tried to comfort me. It was true. this wasn't as bad. This wasn't the end of the world, not again. This was just the end of what little peace there was left behind. That was all.
Not bad, I agreed, then added, but bad enough.
I'd thought Jake had been healing the hole in me - or at least plugging it up, keeping it from hurting me so much. I'd been wrong. He'd just been carving out his own hole, so that I was now riddled through like Swiss cheese. I wondered why I didn't crumble into pieces.
... Then he (Charlie) looked at my face. A kind of horrified recognition registered in his expression. I tried to feel my face from the inside out, to know what he was seeing. My face felt empty and cold, and I realized what it would remind him of.
-- Maybe Charlie is understanding something about the significance that Jacob has to Bella, that Bella hasn't realized herself.
Same chapter, page 276, Bella's dream.
The smooth suppleness of his walk reminded me of someone else, and, as I watched, his features started to change. The russet color of his skin leached away, leaving his face pale white like bone. His eyes turned gold, and then crimson, and then back to gold again. His shorn hair twisted in the breeze, turning bronze where the wind touched it.
-- In this dream Jacob becomes Edward. Maybe Jacob was already becoming Edward, in that Bella was already falling in love with Jacob and this was Bella's subconscious mind trying to tell her that. That would mean that it is also Meyers attempt at trying to tell us (the reader) as well.
So to bring this back to the kiss in Eclipse. I see this as Bella's epiphany about Jacob. There are clues throughout NM (examples given above, but there are others as well) and Eclipse so I do not believe that this epiphany comes completely out of left field. Bella finally gets it!! Why it has been so hard to let Jacob go. Why she is fighting for this "friendship" so much.
Eclipse, Chapter 23, pg 528
Jacob was right. He'd been right all along. He was more than just my friend. That's why it was so impossible to tell him good bye - because I was in love with him. Too. I loved him, much more than I should, and yet, still nowhere near enough. I was in love with him, but it was not enough to change anything; it was only enough to hurt us both more. To hurt him worse than I ever had.
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Permalink Reply by Pinkie on
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Elita,
The kiss does happen in the story but the question should be is it credible to the story as a whole. It is NOT. ALl said before and after speaks to this being a moment of poor writing.
Some of what I said was removed by Moderator Genn. So I am not going to repost them here. I will repost them in my thread so that they are no longer considered derailing the topic. If you want to know what I was referring to about the levels of reading, that will be found there.
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Permalink Reply by Pinkie on
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Not a 'who' but a 'what'
JJ
As you know things you and I said have been removed by a moderator. I have no idea if it was due to my saying something inappropriate to you or because I derailed the conversation, or both. Not knowing is disconcerting in and of itself as I have no idea if even what I write now is considerd to be that inappropriate category. So I am not going to be discussing things on this thread further. I will be discussing them, but on my own thread where this would not be considered derailing. I will read here and should I find a reason to address something to Elita I will do so on my thread so she will know my views.
I am not the least bit upset by you or anything you said, but I do not want to have however you interpret the books or me to contiue to be an issue for you. So yes, you are more than welcome to be on my thread if you so desire, but I will not have anything more to say to you here just so Moderator Genn will not further accuse me of something having to do with whatever I say off topic.
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Permalink Reply by Pinkie on
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You need to reread my last comment as I did add more that I think you missed.
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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I asked a question that was not answered. So I am going to be deleting my own comments. I thought I would let you know that so that it doesn't look like you are talking to yourself.
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Permalink Reply by Elita on
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I do not agree with statement that we should believe what author said and ignore what he/she created. It does not make sense.
See... Twilight books were succesful. Audence rooted for characters, hoped for seeing them on screens. There was enthuasism around!
Movies got low score from critics, scoffing, even hate. Why so?
Obviously, you do notice how they differ from books. I remember both Meyer and Rosenberg said how close they were during filming and how often Rosenberg called and asked for details or explanations. I remember Chris Weitz mentioned the same thing: consultations with Meyer. I do not doubt for a second that moviemakers made changes in correspondence with Meyer. They enlarged Jacobs role, making him much more likeable, they made him look like Bellas childhood friend and they downplayed his bad qualities to the level when Breaking Dawns scene with bowl did not fit with his character at all. They continued their way in Eclipse movie.They tried very hard to expose Bellas feelings toward Jacob: they changed episode in parking lot, making Bella to shout on Edward and ride away with Jacob, they made Bella look bored or angry at Edwards presence but happy and smiling with Jacob, they cut out sweetest moments between Bella and Edward, they made impression that Bella dated Jacob everyday, they gave speech for bella where she basically explained that her wanting to become vampire had nothing to do with Edward, they created musical score for Jacob.... I could go with examples yet and yet. All those changes exposed Bellas love toward Jacob, exactly like what Meyer said in interviews (but did not show in books).
Was Meyer happy?
NO.
She gave some bitter interviews and admired that "human can do only what he can". But she managed to soften parking lot scene a bit. And she became producer for Breaking Dawn where Edward and Bella became the main love couple again.
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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I didn't get that impression from the link you gave. However I would agree that BOOKS are canon and MOVIES are not (or less canon). I did not see any comment by Meyers to indicate that her interviews should not be taken as canon.
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I think that interview from deleted link shows that Meyer feels: books and movies tell us different story and she prefers books.
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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Oh, cool. I would agree with her. I consider books to be canon and movies to be an adaptation which is not.
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