Jacob's and Bella's Kiss
I am always changing my mind through new moon and eclipse who would be better for Bella! I want to know whether she really meant that kiss or was just trying to keep Jacob from doing something silly?
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Permalink Reply by JJ on -
Thank you for taking the time to be so specific in your answer.
-- You are very welcome.
Here is what I understand you to be saying here. For you, the only way the story is wrong is if Meyer writes that Bella changes her desire for Edward; and anything less than that is acceptable
-- It is a little too broad of a statement for me to agree with completely. However I do not see Jacob/Bella love as a contradiction because it does not keep Bella from being with Edward.
Meyer has Bella say it is real and that is all that is needed for you to believe it is real. Meyer has Bella repeat it in the story ; thus, Meyer has confirmed it for you.
-- More the second part of that statement than the first. It is not just that Bella says it once, but she says it over and over and over. There are opportunities that Meyers has for Bella to clarify what she meant (if it was only an overly emotional moment that Bella didn't really mean) and when those opportunities are presented Bella doesn't recant. The fact that Bella doesn't recant is very significant. It shows the author made the decision on purpose for Bella to have the feelings that she has.
Also, What about the vision Bella has specifically? Is there any way that was wrong? If I understood her right, Eltia is saying that this was Bella recalling what Jacob saw and not what Bella wanted. Is that what you thought she said and what you disagree with because you feel the topic is true as written there as well? And if there is more to that than just Bella saying it, would you please share that too?
-- Bella doesn't have the ability to read Jacob's mind, so she doesn't have the ability to have a "vision" in her own mind that was Jacob's. So that is making an assumption that Bella has the ability to do something that she is not able to do. However, I think I know where Elita gets the idea that it was Jacob's vision and not Bella's. There is a quote from Eclipse.
"For one brief, never-ending second, an entirely different path expanded behind the lids of my tear-wet eyes. As if I were looking through the filter of Jacob's thoughts, I could see exactly what I was going to give up, exactly what this new self-knowledge would not save me from losing." -- Then Bella has the vision of her life and children with Jacob.
So therefore I do get where Elita is coming from. It does look like Bella is looking into the mind of Jacob and seeing the future that HE wants. But like I said, Bella doesn't have that ability. She cannot look into Jacob's mind. I also find it interesting that Bella mentions this vision again and then claims that she DOES want it. So if the vision was Jacob's or if the vision was Bella's... It doesn't really matter because either way Bella confirms that she wants that life.
Here again, it is the words spoken by Bella that causes you to define her as being in love with Jacob too. Correct?
-- Again it is not that she spoke the words one time, but she said it in her own mind. She confirmed it to Edward when she easily could have recanted. She also confirmed it again to Jacob, when again she could have recanted and did not.
And again, for you the story holds true because Meyer has Bella make a statement of loving Jacob. Meyer would need to recant the love comment and until she recants it, Bella IS in love with Jacob too. So would that mean that Bella is and will always be in love with Jacob forever?
-- I think that is a question for Stephenie Meyers and not for me. I think that love can last a life time and it is possible for Bella to love Jacob forever, but I also believe that love can fade in time. So it is also possible for Bella to no longer love Jacob. That isn't my decision to make because Bella isn't my character.
As this is off topic in my view, I will just say, that is not what I read from Elita’s comments. -- This entire conversation is pretty much off topic so not sure how my state specifically was "off topic". Elita has told me several times that considers Jacob and Bella to have a family based friendship so that they see each other as brother/sister. And I consider that to be an innaccurate assessment of Jacob and Bella's relationship. I believe that Bella WANTED her relationship with Jacob to be brother/sister but it was not.
While I admit it is very possible that I have seen Elita wrong, I do not see her as you do. I do not see her saying that a writer can not write more than one love, but that Meyer did not write more than one true love.
-- By one true love, do you mean romantic love?
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Permalink Reply by Pinkie on -
Thank you for answering my questions to the best of your ability. It was very helpful in learning how you interpret the story, writers, creative writing and other's persepctives. As promised, I will not defend or offend you with my views.
-- By one true love, do you mean romantic love?
Yes.
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Permalink Reply by Elita on
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JJ - but maybe Bella after healing would go away from Forks and Jacob. Because the only reason why she did not not leave Forks was her attempt to keep memories about Edward plus tiny hope to meet him again.
If she was, so to say, herself again - why should she stay with Jacob? She never became close with him like she was with Edward, she never felt sparkles, never spoke about her dreams....
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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JJ - but maybe Bella after healing would go away from Forks and Jacob. Because the only reason why she did not not leave Forks was her attempt to keep memories about Edward plus tiny hope to meet him again.
-- I think it is possible that Bella would have left Forks eventually and been away from Jacob because you are right it was being close to Edward's memory that made her stay. However based on that statement. Why would she ever leave?
If by staying, it is a given that she would continue to spend time with Jacob. Is it not logical that the more time they spent together that the likelyhood of Bella moving on with Jacob would be more likely?
If she was, so to say, herself again - why should she stay with Jacob? She never became close with him like she was with Edward, she never felt sparkles, never spoke about her dreams....
-- The reason I think she would stay with Jacob is because he is her soul mate in a world without Edward. So I think the same would be true in a world where Edward stays away and never comes back.
"If the world was the sane place it was supposed to be, Jacob and I would have been together. And we would have been happy. He was my soul mate in that world -- would have been my soul mate still if his claim had not been overshadowed by something stronger, something so strong that it could not exist in a rational world."
-- I am not saying that Bella would ever stop loving Edward, but if Edward kept his promise and when he came back to "check on her" he saw that she was with Jacob, then Edward would have left again. And after Jacob and Bella have spent years together, have children and grandchildren there would be no doubt that they have true love.
*** Completely off topic: I like your cat avatar, it is cute. :)
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Is it not logical that the more time they spent together that the likelyhood of Bella moving on with Jacob would be more likely?
Nope. Jacob can't give Bella what she needs: loving family and the world of books and music. Bella never learned to trust Blly, never found friendship with tribe members, and I do doubt if she ever could start to love sport and outdoors activities.
The reason I think she would stay with Jacob is because he is her soul mate in a world without Edward.
First, in this [I mean Twilight] world Edward does exist. Which means, Jacob does not have any chance.
Second , not everyone who is kind to you, automatically means soulmate. Bella again confuses terms.
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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Nope. Jacob can't give Bella what she needs: loving family and the world of books and music. Bella never learned to trust Blly, never found friendship with tribe members, and I do doubt if she ever could start to love sport and outdoors activities.
-- Jacob has a great family and friends who would be supportive of Bella if she had given him a chance. Bella has a love for the classics, which are not difficult to come by and Jacob could easily provide them for her. Music is also universal and no reason for that not to be something her and Jacob can enjoy together. I never thought Jacob was into sports or outdoor activities outside of the activies that he spent with Bella, hiking and riding their bikes.
In truth this is completelyhypothetical and neither can be proven or disproven.
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Jacob spoke about cliffdiving with pleasure and rode bike with pleasure. Bella did biking because of producing her visions plus the speed gave her memories about running through woods with Edward.
I do remember that Bella and Edward shared common taste into music but I do not remember the same for Jacob.
As for Jacob has a great family and friends who would be supportive of Bella if she had given him a chance - Bella actually did give then chance in New Moon but it did not help. Paul still attacked her, and others were indifferent toward her. no one showed signs of friendship. Yes, they did watch her from Victoria but they never tried to become friends with her. At that time Bella believed Edward was gone forever and she even started to consider possibility to be Jacobs girlfriend so we can say she did give them chance.
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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Of course he did those things with pleasure, Jacob is a very fun person. The bikes were something he did with Bella so again, of course he did it with pleasure.
Again, I am talking about years and years of time together and you are talking about less than 3 months that they were together and a month or less of that time Jacob was a wolf. That isn't much time and therefore there is a very big difference.
Paul wasn't attacking her, he was attacking Jacob. Jacob knew better than to bring Bella, but he did anyways. Emily was friendly to Bella and they spent some time together. Quil liked Bella and was still nice to her even when he didn't understand what was going on with Embry and Jacob and once he was in on the secret I see no reason he wouldn't have continued to be friendly to her. Seth is a sweatheart and learned to accept the Cullens there is no reason to not assume that he would have accepted Bella. If Leah is loyal enough to Seth and Jacob to protect the Cullens, then she would have protected Bella and given time, I see no reason for Bella and Leah to not become friends. We know almost nothing about Kim and Jared, but they could be a good couple friend for Jacob and Bella.
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So you do think that Bella would stay with Jacob for years?
More believably she would run away like her mother did, and for the same reason.
Emilie was friendly... and cold. They never talked like Bella and Alice or even Bella and Rosalie did.
Quil, Embry, Jared never were Bellas friends. Quil was very excited to kill Bella in Breaking Dawn!
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Permalink Reply by JJ on
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So you do think that Bella would stay with Jacob for years?
-- Yes. I don't think Bella is like Renee at all.
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