hey, I'm writing up a debate about twilight and I thought this site would be perfect to help me with it, I've read the books and i would really like to know exactly why you like the books. is it that you like the idea of such perfection? or do you like the will she won't she love triangle?
I'd love to hear what your views are! but please nothing on the movies as the debate is specifically literature (sorry robert pattinson and taylor lautner fans!)
please try to be as detailed as possible so I can use it in the debate.
also I'd love to know who your favourite character is and why
Because of a busy schedule right now I will write about one aspect at a time of what I love about Twilight.
Both the book and the first movie let us know that Bella is not a typical 'It's all about me!" girl. She has considered the idea of dying in someone else's place.. to save someone she loves. She moves to Forks to help her mom. Her mom has stayed at home with Bella while her mom's new husband travels. Bella know that has made her mom unhappy. She moves to her dad's to let her mom be with her husband. I love her unselfishness, her willingness to put loved ones before her own selfish needs and wants. How many teenagers..or any of us for that matter...can say they put others' welfare before their own? I really love this about Bella.
This little profound statement sums it all up for me....
"I love her unselfishness, her willingness to put loved ones before her own selfish needs and wants. How many teenagers..or any of us for that matter...can say they put others' welfare before their own? I really love this about Bella."
This is exactly why Twilight and all it's profound moral lessons have internally and spiritually moved me as well. There is nothing typical about the Twilight story...matter-of-fact...it's an anti-society anthem, a social and cultural rebellion/reform that reflects what is lost in the current fabric of the world. Bella's self-less actions and unconditional love/acceptance spoke to me...about how our society is in thirst for understanding what it is to truly love beyond one's self or personal gain.
This theme about how to define love from a worldly perspective or from a divine one...is the apex of why Twilight is so loved or deplored. It's this division or vast polarization of the true context and meaning of Love within the Twilight story....that has so many feuding. Is it really all black and white in how one defines true love? From a spiritual context....yes, it is. There is Light(God/unconditional love)...their is dark(humanity/evil/selfishness/sin)...and then there is redemption through our actions to "try" to emulate the Unconditional love/acceptance/servitude of God has for humanity. How is this achieved? By putting others needs before our own. To Give without reaping or personal gain. Servitude....submission...and sacrifice.....and Twilight explores all these unworldly beliefs and actions.
Many critics said Bella's character was submissive, weak, lacking personal identity, integrity and strength....I say, did we read the same book? In contrary...Bella's interpreted "submission" as a form of weakness...was her greatest strength, beauty and asset within her character. Putting others needs before your own for the benefit of their well-being/happiness takes tremendous internal strength and will. Selfishness or compulsory 'eye' for 'eye' ideology represents the worldly religion of Man-kind. It's a much easier task to put your own needs above all others...yet, the most unfulfilling as well. True love can't be experienced or attained without caring for another beyond your own life or needs.
These Unworldly beliefs and actions you mention, Danette, at least in our world of today are not so popular as you say. I am so grateful to Stephenie Meyer for being a proponent of unselfishness, among other things! The weakness accusation directed at Bella's character has always baffled me. Bella is not typical of today's teenagers. Most of us Twilight lovers feel we are hopefully 'not typical', probably, maybe out of the mainstream and not unhappy to be there, like Bella. She went about her life without expecting popularity or even the approval of her friends.
OK i can see where you are coming from here although I must admit I don't agree with some things that you have said, I'm only looking for reasons for an opinion and obviously we will all have differences in our opinions. but that gives me something very good to use in my debate, thanks for your comment.
It has helped start off my arguement
What don't you agree with? What opinion are you looking to support? I'd love to hear more. Maybe we do agree on some aspects..and if not we can agree to disagree :D!
Only that I don't find Bella to be a selfish character in the first place.
Not because she is selfless, it's just i haven't seen her set aside a personal desire that is selfish, she is just selfless. I'm finding it hard to phrase exactly what I mean.
but that idea of morals has given me great ammunition for my side of the debate.
I would say selfless comes close to a description of Bella. Not only did she choose to move to Forks to her father's house to help her mother, but she barely let it impact her feelings. She kind of didn't think about how it would change her life. She pitched in to cook and clean for her father to do her part. She launched into homework at her new school and did not complain that she was repeating some of the coursework she had already done, rather saw it as an advantage, making her transition easier.
All her actions speak of a person who puts others' feelings before her own.
Carlisle's actions throughout the series demonstrate a similar ethos. Edward grows in that direction and makes great strides.
I just find it a bit unhealthy, the poor girl doesn't feel she can do anything unless it's for other people.
Selflessness in a person is good and you're right it's not seen much in today's society, but sometimes the extent to which selflessness can stretch is dangerous. I mean how would she feel if she did a major selfless act and it wasn't appreciated?
Bella didn't seem to wait with baited breath for her dad to compliment her cooking or cleaning. She knew what she was cooking was way better than what he had been eating and that made her feel she was contributing to the household and to him. She also kept the house neat and clean -- not waiting for her dad to notice and thank her--but because she knew it was something that needed to be done and was probably not something that Charlie did easily. It was something Bella knew how to do. Her dad, being a dad, fed and housed her and had bought her a truck followed by new tires. That was what he knew how to do for his daughter.
How many brides do you know that clean the house for a parent on the day of their weddings? Bella just liked the idea of leaving the house clean for her dad. If you read the books you know that she took over the cleaning and cooking for her mother, too, as a fairly young child, really because it was something she was able to do to contribute--out of love and appreciation for her mother's financial support and love of her.
Acts of true selfessness are done out of love and gratitude and a desire to give back to those who have given to us.
Bella did not necessarily see her own value for a long time because what she was able to do as a human was not special in her estimation, but rather fairly common among her classmates. Edward was trying to get her to understand, that her acts of selflessness came from her inner beauty of being. Bella could see Edward and his family's beauty and special-ness. Once she liked who she was as a vampire, she became much more confident.
I would say Bella took herself very lightly but took the contributions of her adopted vampire family much more seriously because of the true sacrifices they made to live in peace alongside humans.
I never said she would wait with baited breath. but I fail to believe that anyone with that mindset could and would do all that or little or no gratitude from the person they are sacrificing there time and energies for.
Bella is not a real person, so she can think like that, what I am saying is that it is not very realistic. and this is not a good role model.
the story of twilight is ok. it's not original precious few things are nowadays. but the story is interesting. but it has some major problems with it.
I understand that no one on this site will agree with my views on twilight and i am very sorry for stirring up all of this.
I just wanted to see a fan's perspective on twilight and when I read that comment I was alarmed as I have a great deal of experience with "problems" being spawned from this mindset. and i felt it would be irresponsible of me not to point these out.
I admit I did not write in the most tactful way and I am sorry for any upset caused.
All is open for healthy discussion, Jennifer. The problem with 'What about me?' is that there is little attention or gratitude for other people's contributions other than one's own. Bella took time to complete what she felt on the inner was the right thing to do. So she had some self respect if not a great deal of self esteem. She also saw her father enjoy what she cooked so she knew he was appreciative of her efforts. I believe her inner life helped her cope with Lauren's dislike/jealousy of her and also Jessica's antics. She could have dated the most popular boys but paid attention again to what she wanted from the inner.
And yes, Pinkie, once Bella knew what she wanted she went for it wholeheartedly. She even was facing life without her mother after she was changed, knowing her mother couldn't handle the suspense and the changes in her as well as the necessary 'need to know' rule that Charlie agreed to. Bella felt free to choose what she wanted for her own life and go for it 100%.
I really don't understand what you are trying to say.
But from what I can gather you seem to be miss understanding what it I am trying to explain. i.e. that Bella's way of thinking is not healthy way to go about life.
From the example you have used it is clear that the author is showing that acts of selfishness are not tolerable and will lead to dangers. - Bella wants to save the vampires for her own personal gain and that puts her father and town in danger-
but is this an act of selfishness? clearly it is a case either/or. it would be more logical to try to save the vampires as they will have the better chance of surviving. it's cold logic.
but what the author is trying to put across is that selfishness is bad when it really isn't. we all need to look after number one, yes help other people and all that if you want. (I am not saying that selflessness is bad or that HIGH amounts of selfishness is good)
because other wise that can lead to dependency and vulnerability as displayed by Bella's relationship with Edward where she is highly dependent on him and Edward dominates her.
how ever i will not initiate a debate on the Edward/Bella relationship.
The problem is that this mind set and way of living is paraded throughout the books as being the fantastic and most rewarding way to live and selfishness will only lead you down dark and dangerous paths. When that is simply not true.