The Twilight Saga






Bella and Charlie's realtionship developes a lot throughout all the books and in the end becames quite a lovely father and daughter relationship.

At the beginning in Twilight Bella seems to have little connection to her father except certain qualities but as far as a bond goes there seems to me to bit little, as the books go on it seems to develop to a stronger bond, I except part of this is due to living together but that still doesn't always bring a bond together. We know that Charlie loves Bella more than he shows by some of his gestures i.e putting the snow chains on her wheels and buying her the truck in the beginning. But in Breaking Dawn he shows more love and their relatioship has changed.

My questions are:

When do you think the change happened?

And why?

Thanks

Gem

Tags: Bella, Charlie, relationship

Views: 276

Replies to This Discussion

This is a good point Sasha, are you talking about New moon or Breaking Dawn?
I think it all changed after finding out that Bella wasnt really sick & he saw her as the "new" bella.
Charlie felt that he missed out alot so thats why in Breaking Dawn he come over lot more to the Cullen's house.
Christie

Thank you for your comment. Yes this a big part of what adds to their relationship. We hear he rings alot when she is sick and when he excepts her change(need to know) because he loves her.

Gem
I think the change started in New Moon when Edward left her. She was broken and he wanted so bad to heal her. He couldn't there was nothing that he could do for her. He watched her transform from a hollow shell back to Bella. So I feel that it is a respect thing. He knows now that she is strong enuf to endure anything. In Eclipse I feel that he thought that she was slowly slipping away. He was letting her go slowly she was becoming a woman. In Breaking Dawn she strikes out staking her independence. He knows she is strong, will-fill and ready for anything. He is OK with letting her go to be on her own. I am a mother my child is 13 I slowly have to let her go a little bit more every day. Believe me it sucks, but I know like Bella someday when it is Bree's turn she will be ready to go... with her Edward or Jacob just as-long as she is happy that is all that counts.
Kristie

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

"I think the change started in New Moon when Edward left her. She was broken and he wanted so bad to heal her. He couldn't there was nothing that he could do for her." An fantastic point, Bella "grief" (I see it that way) was horrendous and for Charlie who is not the best with feeling, seeing his little girl in that way must of been terrible. But, when "He watched her transform from a hollow shell back to Bella" i can see when you said about respect.

thanks

Gem

PS I dont have children yet, but now at 27 i can see how my mum had to let me go piece by piece to become who I am now. She even was like Charlie wasn't that keen on my partner for a while and i was so young (16 when we met), she worried but now she sees she didnt need to and excepts that he is good for me. Mind you I don't think she has let go entirely! :)

Dear Gemma, What a wonderful topic. I have never ever seen this topic brought up before and it is very important for a lot of reasons. There is so much to think about. How did their distance affect her. Girls relationships with their dad's can be key in understanding their relationships with their future husbands.
All I can say is WOW great topic. Will have to put my thinking cap on for this one.

Most sincerely,
Doc B
Dear Vampara, I kept my thinking cap on all afternoon. Girls first loves typically are their fathers. But did Bella's parent's separation, prevent her normal "Electra" experience from occurring? Were B and C platonicaly bonding?(Who was playing which roles originaly in their relationship, and did their roles change?) Bella is so mature. I think that Edward has to be a major key to understanding, Bella's and Charlie's relationship. Your thoughts were so excellent, I have had to put my thinking hat back on and start over. Edwards characteristics are so unique how, and where do they fit into this psychological jigsaw puzzle ? Gemma, your superb question certainly opened "Pandora's box" good and wide, in the Swan's home. Your, Pondering Doc, May need my bigger hat!
Vampara

Thank you for answering

You have said many thing that are so true in context to some of the thing that I think too, I do have my own other views but, I dont want to reveal them quite yet as I did love to hear more from everyone else.

Bella moving to Forks- yes, this is certainly going to change the relationship, we all know living with someone is different that just visiting someone. I think that Charlie was so pleased that Bella was coming to stay and that more importantly it was her choice, even if he didnt entirely know the reasons behind, and again your right they dont know each other.

Edward- Well he certainly did change things "awoke papa bear" great phrase Btw, yes this i think is also a big factor, again correct with Edward was talking his little girl away when he only just got her back and this makes him more defensive I think and they do begin to argue like father and daughter.

Thank you for a excellant answer

Your friend

Gem
I think it changed the first time he thought he lost Bella (when she leaves because of James). Charlie realize he needed to be more forth coming with his feelings and slowly they began to connect even more allowing their father daughter relationship to flourish.
I got my biggest "thinking Hat" out.

And it said, "before you wrestle with this essential question. Why don't you make a list of the facts you know about Bella and Charlie ! Oh and while your at it why don't you invite ask your Rose friends to make some observations about your facts. Lord only knows you could use their good advice. Besides you know how much I love them."

"Me too," I said. "Oh, and incidentally." the hat continued, "these discussions have gotten 1000% better since you joined that Rose group." "I couldn't agree more, " I said


Facts which might be relevant to Bella and Charlie's relationship.

1. Charlie is of average intelligence. Renee is also of average, or a little below average intelligence. Bella is intellectually gifted. (Isn't nature a trickster)


2. Renee took Bella away from Forks, and Charlie, when she was still an infant.


3. When an infant is seperated from one parent by another, the developing child typically subconsciously feels abandoned by the absent parent. (in this case Charlie) And the child typicaly subconiouly feels resentful "for being abandoned by the male figure in her life" That is true, even though Bella's concious mind knows that it is not rational to resent Charlie.

4. Bella probably took over the role of being the "parent" in her little family (She and Renee) as soon as Bella was intellectually superior to her mother. In my opinion that would probably have occured when she was about 10 years of age or in the fourth grade.

5. It is IMPOSABLE that Bella went through the normal "Electra Complex" maturation process.*

*Sigmund Freud explained the concept of the Oedipal complex in boys. His closest colleague, Carl Jung (name sound familiar ?) described it in girls. Freud would say girls are psychologically bound to their mothers until around age 3 to 6. And that at that age they "fall in love" with their fathers. And then they recognize their mothers as competitors. As young girls mature their "romantic love fantasies" for their fathers are converted into healthy agape (parent-child love) relationship. And they are again attracted to their mothers. But this time they psychologically internalize their mothers (which means that they start to see themselves as women, and future mothers)

6. Bella could never have gone through a normal Electra process because she was with Charlie, only one month a year. Also her mother, or another woman, was never there to play the role of her competitor for Charlie's love. So she never had sufficient time to bond with Charlie.

6b. And Charlies lingering love for Renee, never allowed him to marry a second potential mother figure for Bella. Consequently Bella never had a mother to teach her how to compete in life, especially against other women.

6c. Was Bella's sense of "betrayal" by her father, and her consequent feelings of "never being good enough" the reason she tended to see her self as less attractive to boys than she really was ? And could it have caused her to unconsciously drive boys away ?

7. A girls Electra teaches her how to romantically love a man.

8. It also teaches a girl how to become competitors, especially with other girls.

9. Bella never learned or enjoyed competition, because she missed her Electra and she was intellectually superior to her mother. (So she had no possable intelectual competion there)

10. When Charlie borough his "little girl" home she was already a fully adult woman in many ways, and had run her own home for five years. (To some extent, Jacob taught her how to be a girl)

11. Since she never learned how to compete with her mother, she hated competition until she bonded with Edward. (Remember what Jung taught us "When a powerful love bond forms each partners weaknesses are replaced by his or her partners strengths. Edward gave competitiveness to Bella, and she gave the ability to love to Edward. The "old pre- bonded Bella would never have looked forward to arm weaseling Emmet, or to out river jumping Edward"

12 Bella's conscious mind liked Charlie "he really is a very decent man." It is her subconscious mind that still resented him for DESERTING her, even as she first returns to Forks.

12 b Was part of her "hatred of Forks a projection of her anger at Chalie?"


12 c Fortunately she is blessed to be able to bond so completely with Edward, that after years of suffering from her "father's desertion," both her conscious and subconscious minds can once and for all finaly stop worring about being deserted by the man she loves.

13. If Bella missed the Electra experience of "Internalizing what it is to be a mother could it have been "her little nudger" who kept nudging her until she fully understood the love of a parent for a child. And consequently, recognize her desperate desire to have the loving relationship with Charlie that she never had. (needs more thought, could be out of time sequence)

14. On arriving in forks Bella immediately assumes the role of the "adult woman" in the family, by doing the shopping, cleaning, cooking.

15. Bella was always physicaly pretty, but thought of herself as average looking.

16. On seeing Edward she subconsciously knows that he is the answer to all of her dreams.

17. Bella missed out on the Electra father love stage, the puppy love adolescent stage, and has never experienced a first "true love stage' when she falls totally in love with Edward. He statement " I have no fear of death, I only fear loosing you" tells us the new perspective she has assumed towards the man in her life.

18 When Edward deserts her just as her father "had" and just as her subconscious had told her a thousand times, he would, she psychologically dies"

19. Going into shock is provably the only thing that prevented her from committing suicide.

20. Bella has always had a special relationship with her subconscious. "Just Shut up" I said out loud to my subconscious . Bella in Port Angeles.

20. Is the fact that, Bella never had an adult mother or father to relate to, the reason she developed her special relationship with her subconcious /

For example Bella and her subconscious "conversations." Could it be that since her subconscious was the only adult Bella had to relate to, that she humanized her subconscious?

Bella Quote "Shut up" I yelled at my subconscious.
Bella "I continued to fight with my subconscious, about him until I saw the silver Volvo. "Stupid unreliable Vampire." I screamed.

"Don't Bella you promised" "Nothing stupid remember !"

21. How did Bella's telling Charlie she didn't want to end up living with him in forks impact on their relationship ?

22. What did Charlie think of Edward ?

23. When Bella was able to love Edward, why was her father never able to like him ? But was able to "Love" Alice.

24 How did Bella's and Charlies relationship change the day after Edward said "You ARE my life now"

25. How did Charlies continued unrequited love for Rene impact on Bella?

26 Did Bella like having Charlie "be the parent" and even put her on curfew"

27. How was Bella and Charlies relationship different when she was dating Jacob, than it was when she was dating Edward ?

28. From the moment Edward said "you are my life now" until the moment he said "I never loved you" was Bella psociologically married to Edward. If so how did her "marriage" to Edward affect her relationship with her Charlie ?

28. b How did Charlies continued unrequited love for Renne impact on his love for Bella ?


29. During the "month" in Forks and later the "week" in California that Bella and Charlie stayed together during her child hood Bella probably played the role of being a child.

While Charlie wrestled with the task of trying to be a parent, to his "adult, intellectually gifted, kind hearted " daughter.

So when Bella arrives in forks their roles have already been well established. She doesn't see Edward for another 20 hours. And won't full give her life over to him for another 89 days.

30. Review Bella's willingness to accept her own death rather than let James kill her mother or Charlie. FYI


Hat says it's tired. And now that we have reviewed a few points, we can start putting our answer together. Until tomarrow.


lol DB

.
.
Forgive me for sticking a photo in your debate but this one was just too much. lol DB
This is one of my favourite scene in the film! Especially when he pretends to wear a halo.

Nothing to forgive

Gem

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