The Twilight Saga

Discussion topic KST102509 by Doc B
ALICE ? Mary Alice Brandon 1901-18 What do YOU think her most likely “story” was?
At the end of the novel “Twilight” as James is torturing Bella Swan to death, he momentarily stops to reminisce about “the one who got away.” A young girl named Mary Alice Brandon. Mary Alice of course is “our” Alice Jasper Whitlock aka Alice Hale Cullen.
An old Vampire “ruined her” for James by “turning her into a vampire” before James could “taste“ her. James saw that the old vampire paid with his “existence” for saving Alice.
After being reanimated Alice discovered her own grave stone and to her chagrin, discovered that the date listed as her date of death, was the same as her date of admission into the insane asylum.

What we know about her past, would have to be described as “stretchy” at best. She was born in 1901, in Biloxi Mississippi. Was amitted to a mental institution around 1917. An “old Vampire” fell in love with her. She was being tracked by the same James who tracked Bella. And the old Vampire “ruined her” for James by “turning her into a vampire” before James could “taste“ her. James saw that the old vampire paid with his “existence” for saving Alice.
After being reanimated Alice discovered her own grave stone and to her chagrin, discovered that the date listed as her date of death, was the same as her date of admission into the insane asylum.

Alice’s blood smelled even better to James than Bella’s did. But how do you fit all of the “ODD” facts of Alice’s story together.
Being tracked, The asylum, loved by an old vampire, grave stone date and admission date both the same.

Theoretical Question: What is your best Guess-timate (a guess based on the few facts we know ) as to what did happened to Alice, before she met Jasper?*

As always we sincerely look forward to learning your opinion, so that we might both better understand and enjoy the "Twilight Saga."

Most sincerely,
Doc B

The "Rose Group" discusses a different question about the "Twilight Saga" novels each day. If you would like to participate, all that you have to do is go to our home page"> Next to the large "Reading Bear" painting in the "What brings you here" box you will find the discussion for the day and the URL address that will take you to it. At the bottom of the page "the three blind mice point out other discussions, still being analyzed.
*Rose Member Jessica Brown wrote and excellent account of Alice and Jasper’s story. It is named “The Long Road Home.” We would highly recommend that you read it. AFTER you post your response of course. LolDB

The long road home.

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Replies to This Discussion

Dear Tara,
You were waiting for one of these from me! I am so glad that at least one of us has some idea of where I am going! On second thought it is probably better that you are the one. If remembering where you left your car is a forewarning.

Wow you know a heck of a lot more about Alice's early life than I do. I'll have to quit using Wickopedia and go to the Twilight lexicon or where ever you get your information. You really were LOADED FOR BEAR THIS TIME.
A "good old Doctor like Carlyle" or Doc B I am starting to warm up to your version.

The older Doctor loved her so much. Genius concept!!

Suicide mission. The power of love. Exactly right.

Venom Heals all wounds, mental and physical (a genius thought and a darned good metaphor. (you win the metaphore of the day award.

A truly excellent post. Just out of interest where did you get your information on Alice's early life You beat me fair and square. Some time the bear teaches the Ginger Head a little.

Sometimes she teaches him a lot. You were a huge help in helping me not only learn, but in correcting mt misunderstandings. Thank you for lending a hand and leading me in the right direction.

Thank you so much for your insight to this question. And
Your friend, Doc B
Debate Score Ginger Head 10 Bear 2
I'm confused, granted a easy thing to do, but. If Alice tells Bella in New Moon that she filched her admission papers and found out that the date of admission is the same as the date of her death, how was she in the ayslum for half her life? Where was she kept? Don't get me wrong, I can picture what your saying, its just that part. She would have been put somewhere secluded where the staff couldn't have found her right?

WHEN YOUN WERE GIVING YOU THOUGHTS ON VAMPIRE VENOM, THIS POINT WAS OVERLOOKED: As Clarisse said "Why not try training you genius mind on this problem ????????

Expectantly waiting an answer. Sneaky Cat GOT your tongue?

Sometimes our memories are less than perfect. I am reminded of that most times I see a parking lot. My problem is that I just need to take a bearing when I park my car. But since I am usually mentally trying to solve complex, compound, problems: Such as, “How it that “the Cat’ is so good at Sneaking up on me,” I forget!!!!
And just because one detail of your superb post is off doesn’t mean it wasn’t excellent. Button said to tell you “That dinner time is not a small detail!!
Proud to be called, Tara’s friend
Doc B

Sorry Tara, LOL I had just finished reading all the books again for the 7th time now, so everything was fresh in mind. But it is good to be wrong once in a while, it keeps us on our toes for next time. Have a good day.
All we really know about Alice is she is a mystery. I have a theory on way she may not remember her human life, she was constantly having visions almost 24/7. She had no control. She couldn't function in society thats what lead to the asylum. So it may have been a few 2 or 3 years that she was in there, We may never know. I know if I was locked up in some little room padded or otherwise I would go a little crazy too, she probably welcomed those visions even more so in there just for the escape from her reality. I guess all we can hope for is that Stephenie will shine some light on Alice in maybe Midnight Sun or with any luck and book of someone else's prespective. So until then it's a mystery.
This is what I think happened...
Mary Alice Brandon was daughter to two wealthy parents, and sister to a young girl. She was brought up in a society where having "visions" was used in the same sentence as "mentally unstable". Her parents doing the only thing thought acceptable, had her committed to an asylum. It was not clear whether her parents did this out of worry for their daughter's safety, or for their social protection. Never the less, Mary Alice Brandon, was institutionalized at a very young age. Life in the asylum was different from life at home- she hated both of them. She felt sick and confused- a feeling she realized she had lived with for most of her life. She was more than scared by her visions, and was grateful by the older doctor that seemed to be looking out for her. There was something strange about him. He seemed old although there was a youth about him and he moved with unintended grace. They became close as she grew older, him looking out for her and protecting her, trying to get the others doctors to reduce the amount of treatments they were putting her under.
The old doctor started acting weird one week, and the next stole her away from the institution. She was elated by this. Until one night. When she was awoken my a burning pain. When she awoke she saw the handsome face of a young male, light hair. She then saw the faces of a another young male, although older then the first, with a young woman with light brown hair, a beautiful girl with blond hair, a very big young man with dark hair, and a teenage boy with reddish brown hair. They all had extremely pale skin. She knew instantly that these were the faces of her family. Although she was not with them yet, she had the strangest feeling of being home for the first time in her life.

Dear Nina, Great insight. Man the Bear is really getting a lesson today!!
Your post is just one excellent thought after another.
I especially liked "There was something strange about him. He seemed old although there was a youth about him and he moved with unintended grace" (The way YOU write has a flow and grace as well. (Guess I should have spent more time in the writting lab and less time the Chemistry lab)

Nina there is nothing to say but beautifully written.
I can't remember posting a discussion where thanks to both you and Tara I learned more.
Thank you so much!!
Great job
Doc B
You win the bouquet of the day for such a well written post. And our answer to prayer award. For helping all of us understand the dynamics of this cryptic topic better.

Be Kind Post Blind lol DB

Dear Reading Bear,

(another unusual question! Are you still periodically accidentally taking your dog's medicine perchance?)

Well as professor Lector use to say: "To find the answer to a human problem, you first need to understand the nature of the participants."

So what do we know about the characters of our participants ?

1. James: One of the world's best trackers. Who has an incredible craving for Alice. "Your blood is not nearly as attractive to me as Alice's was." He tells Bella. He also told Bella "The Cullens got Alice BUT I GOT YOU!" This had been a showdown in the making for 80 years.

Question: Hide anyone in the world, and how long do you think it would take James to find him or her ?

With out supernatural help may be a week or two.

2. Alice is a delightful girl or woman. Beautiful, a joy to know, with an ability (even as a human) to have premonitions of the future. Whose memory has been completely erased.

3. An "An Older Vampire" who elected to die so that Alice might live. (Edward was 100 years old, would he be considered an "older vampire" probably)

4. Alice was admitted to a mental facility. (What signs of mental illness does she presently exhibit ?) Absolutely none.

When was electroshock therapy invented ? 1930 (10 years after Alice's death. How many cases of total amnesia have ever been reported from its use? None to my knowledge. What could cause total amnesia ? Head trauma, maybe massive psychological shock. OR just maybe her memory could have been totally erased by a supernatural being with a gift for erasing memory.

So I think the most likely scenario was that a Vampire, like Edward, fell deeply in love with Alice. And like Bella, Alice learned all about Vampires (a death sentence if it ever came out) Alice was also deeply in love with our Edward-oid vampire. (When human's turn their basic natures remain. Alice adores and lives for Jasper, just as she adored and lived for her first vampire lover.

Alice has a premonition of James tracking her. He may have even gotten her scent. To hide and protect Alice, our Edward-oid vampire, gets her admitted to a mental hospital and erases her memory. And even gets her declared dead. And has "someone" else buried in her grave. For her own protection Edward-oid may have even planned to never see her again.

It may have even fooled James for a while.

Edward-oids problem solved now all he had to do was wait for James to give up. But James never gives up. He may even have exhumed the body in Alice's grave, confirming that Alice was still alive. Just as our present day Edward "knew" James, our 1917 Edward-oid "knew" James as well. And he knew that James was coming for Alice. So as a last minute desperate act he turns Alice.

On discovering that his anticipated "taste" had been ruined, James kills Alice's lover in his furry.

Yhis is another possible cause of Alice's total amnesia, it might have been a psychological reaction to the shock of watching James kill the "man" she adored.

I think the thought that Alice was admitted to a mental institution, because of her premonitions is a red herring.(false lead Natasi)

Alice must have been around 17 or 18 at the time, and was intelligent and delightful. If her premonitions were so disturbing to others I think she could have hidden them. She had no problem hiding her profoundly enhanced abilities for 80 years.

Also Jame's all consumming fixation with killing Edward. Even his filming of his torturing Bella.

I think Jame's obsession was fixed when he saw Alice in the ball park "the only failure of his life" Standing next to Bella, who Edward immediately defended.

BIG GAME ON ALL OVER AGAIN! De Ja Voue, all over again (as Yogie would say)

Edward even admitted that "my protection of you, made Jame's desire for the hunt a hundred times more exciting" (paraphrased)

To James it was like reliving his only failure. And he went totally berserk. He had little interest in Bella. His big goal was to "re-kill" the only vampire who had ever bested him!

It was Jame's pure joy at the delight of reliving the "Alice senerio" that made him stop and taunt Edward. To revile in his victory.

"Sure you are fast. BUT I AM STRONGER!!" Says James.

And that was why (in the movie) the look on Jame's face was one of total shock, when Edward bested him, by used his lightening speed to sink his teeth into the right side of Jame's neck and rip out the arteries, veins, and muscles of the right side of his neck.

And it was at that same moment that the vampire who had laid down his life for his beloved Alice ended up besting James after all.

Most sincerely,
Doc B
That was a long swim. Why can't we ever seem to have easy question?

Dear Doc Thank goodness while you were swimming, The other members were learning their Twilight history!! Reading Bear
Oh we have a special award for you today too.
Good point Sasha,
She did have premonishions.
Doc B

I don't think Alice had a good start in life, wih her visions i'm sure her parents saw her as some what psychotic, even thoough we know this is not true Alice is friendly and charmastic(not like Jasper, but she shares the same quality). I'm sure that she made friends easily bt, I can also see that people may have found her strange but endearing to people. I can though as the times people who were different were often hidden, and maybe when Alice sa that James was tracking her, her behaviour being frightened of something that her parents could not see orwere in disbelief of what she was telling them, people are not so open minded as they are today. but whilst this is happening this vamire had befriended Alice, someone who she may of looked to for support when her parents wouldn't, someone who listened to her and believed her stories, who probably knew of powers in humans due to vampires and hearing about the Volturi and their powers so forth, so he took her under his wing and fell in love with her and want to protect her like Edward did for Bella.
So not being able to understand their daugther anymore and relieved for someone else they put Alice in the asylum, whilst telling everyone else that she is dead as it was easier for them and lss embarassing, maybe they have a reputation to protect, this older vampire then knowing from Alice what is coming decides the only way to proect her from James, is to change her whilst she's their bites her whislt she's in the dark as the asylum sees the best way to treat alice is to keep her in the dark, so she can not see anything and when she is bitten they just see it as an episode. during this time Alice has completely blanked out her human exsistance because the memories of being deserted by her fmily is just to painful.

During this time before she leaves the asylum, her change is discovered by James and he seeks revenage on the one who changed her, James being a tracker and all an with Alice smelling irreisitable to him, he would never settle with letting it pass and losing the game, and with the old vampires love for Alice he was willing to sacrifice himself in need of Alices escape, which had probably happened and he had used his vampire charm for her to be released and run the first day Alice breathed fresh air, seen the light and first saw Jasper in her mind giving her relief, as her friend and James would not be seen in her visions any longer because they did not concern her anymore. All she now was Jasper...

hope this is ok

G xx


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