How would Irina know that Laurent was killed by wolves?

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Permalink Reply by daisy on June 17, 2010 at 1:43pm

Probably because the Cullens are in regular contact with the Denali Coven, i'm pretty sure Carlisle would have mentioned something to tania as Irina didn't even come to the wedding because of it.

Permalink Reply by JJ on June 17, 2010 at 9:15pm

Fantastic Question - It feels like a flaw to me, and that they should not know. I am going to add it to my Q&A thread and see what theories I get. If I get anything good I'll share them here as well.

Permalink Reply by JJ on June 18, 2010 at 8:59am

I got a pretty good response, will share any others that come.
--- Reminder: NOT MY THEORY - theory by sanctnuae

OOOO perfect my type of question:))
My theories: (based on only a few mins thought...so these may change)
Laurent is doing a favour for Victoria, but doesn't want to be away from Irina (we know its hard for vamp couples to be apart, right?). So he arranged to go visit the Cullens with her as an excuse to check up on Bella for Victoria. When Laurent goes missing it wouldn't be difficult for Irina to follow his scent, and, I'm sure she was aware of the treaty so must also be aware of the wolves.

or

When Laurent didn't come back maybe Irina tracked his scent all the way from Denali? Again I think she would know about the treaty and wolves.

or (last one, I promise:)) )

Victoria told her what had happened, maybe in the hope that Irina would get pissed at the wolves and try to avenge his death. Leaving Bella unprotected for Victoria to get at.

Permalink Reply by JJ on June 18, 2010 at 10:51am

Another good response, from Will Whitlcok.
--- Reminder: NOT MY THEORY

Will Whitlock
Maybe she saw the remains of Laurent.. Ashes or just some part of him left unburned by the wolves... (How could they burn laurent in their wolf form )... then after the cullens refusal, Irina wandered off by herself to bring down the pack then, after a few months, she saw bella with renesmee and jacob... I guess she knew about the treaty before laurent died because,

1. they asked permission to bring down the pack,
2. She knew that the howling(breaking dawn, where bella, nessie and jacob are hunting) came from jacob, (some vamps could believe that the howling came from the animals or just another vamp.. like bree, she never saw that the wolves are helping the cullens... she thought that it was the howling vampires) and
3. She told the volturi something at the near end where she was about to be killed.. about not pressing charges on the wolves for killing her mate...

Permalink Reply by ShannonP on June 18, 2010 at 12:53pm

The fight with the newborns, when Tanya's family refused to fight, was in the third book, the wolves killing laurent was in the second book, new moon, while Edward was gone. The rest of the Cullens went to visit Tanya's family during that time--Alice actually rushed back from Denali to Forks when she had her cliff-jumping vision of Bella--so the Cullens had been with Tanya's family during the time that Laurent went missing or shortly thereafter. I'm sure Irina was distraught during that time and that the Cullens saw that.

So I think it makes perfect sense that Carlisle would have told Irina or Tanya what became of Laurent when he found out that the wolves had destroyed him to defend Bella from him. He would tell them what he'd learned out of courtesy to them, out of compassion, to ease Irina's suffering and wondering, and to try to smooth things over and prevent Irina from coming to Forks to try to take vengeance on the pack.

The last reason is most important, because Carlisle would be in a tough position if Irina wanted vengeance--so of course he would have to try to keep that from happening by laying things out for her honestly and compassionately. Since the books are from Bella's pov, we wouldn't see that conversation. But it certainly makes sense that the Denalis refused to fight for Carlisle against the newborns if perhaps Carlisle had refused to break the treaty and fight with the Denalis to avenge Laurent when he told Irina the wolves had destroyed him. The Denalis were quite explicit that the only way they would help the Cullens was if Carlisle agreed to help them seek vengeance against the pack, so it seems like the treaty has been an issue between Tanya and Carlisle since Laurent's demise.

As an alternative way for Irina to find out what happened, if it wasn't from Carlisle then perhaps Victoria told her? Victoria knew there were wolves in the area and what Laurent was doing. She also knew that the Cullens were friends with Irina and would want to divide the Cullens from their allies. And she's smart enough to figure out that the Cullens must have some arrangement with the wolves or else how are they hunting her but have never disturbed the Cullens, even though they've been around Forks permanently for a few years?

It seems like the perfect thing for Victoria to do, to try to set the Cullens at odds with either their Denali friends or else with the pack. The Cullens are stuck right in the middle, unable to help the Denalis against the wolves without breaking their agreement, and unable to defend the wolves against the Denalis without angering their allies. It seems a good strategy to create a rift between the Cullens and their allies in Denali--that's four less vampires for her newborns to face. Of course it backfires on Victoria--had the Denali come to the aid of the Cullens, perhaps the pack wouldn't have been involved in the fight? But then, Victoria couldn't have thought that the pack would actually fight beside the Cullens--not even the pack or Carlisle had counted on that!

Again, we would see none of this because the books are from Bella's pov.

Permalink Reply by Spandana on June 18, 2010 at 1:59pm

Well, I kind of agree with you on both terms. But don't you think it was just Irina who was seeking avenge for Laurent's death? It's kind of clear from BD, that Tanya, Kate, Eleazer and Carmen never wanted to fight the wolves, atleast that's what I understood from the books. Since it was only Irina's wish ( from what I've taken for granted ) I take it she was the only one trying to reason with Bella, that is coming to visit them in Forks, when she unfortunately sees Nessie and Jacob, in his wolf form. That obviously angered her. And this explains me again that it was ONLY Irina trying to avenge Laurent's death. And also, she's the only really attached to him. We never knew for fact if the rest of the Denalis accepted Laurent into their coven whole-heartedly. I mean, he WAS a vampire who drinks human blood and the Denalis must have been having their own doubts about him. Laurent himself mentions that he did cheat sometimes - drinks human blood when he can no more take animal blood. Tanya and the rest would definitely know this just by looking at his red eyes. I mean, this is just to explain that I think Irina was the only trying to fight the wolves.

Anyway, as for the direct question - if it were Carlisle who told Irina about the wolves killing Laurent, so that he could try to calm her if it is vengeance that she was seeking, he wouldn't have as surprised as SM writes in Eclipse. I mean, Carlisle was pretty taken aback when Irina tries a truce with the Cullens. If he had told her earlier about it and made sure that she wouldn't avenge the wolves, he musn't be surprised were Irina to bring up the topic again, if you know what I mean.

It's pretty plausible that Victoria must have told Irina about it, thinking that it would kind of tense up the situation between the Cullens and the Denalis. But, the book being from Bella's POV, if this is what SM must have made out of it, she would have atleast mentioned this in the telephonic conversation between Carlisle and Tanya, that it was Victoria who mentioned Laurent's death to Irina and reast of her coven. But this not being there, I think JJ must be right, this is a pretty big flaw on SM's side. I'd bet SM never really gave thought to it!

Permalink Reply by daisy on June 18, 2010 at 5:55pm

Personally I think it seems logical for one of the Cullens to tell Irina what happened to Laurent. I'm not sure Laurent was that close to Irina, i know vampires do bond as pairs but Irina is suppose to be a "vagetarian" and Laurent did try that for a while but didn't succeed with that, their relationship had only been quite short relatively speaking for vampires.
I think Irina was much more emotionally committed compared to Laurent.

Permalink Reply by Mz Twilight Obsessed on June 19, 2010 at 1:29am

wow thank you all soo much for your views and opinions. i like them so far

Permalink Reply by Nicole Alice Giles on July 5, 2010 at 12:44pm

Well, maybe he promised to come back after he went to go see the Cullens.

Permalink Reply by daisy on July 5, 2010 at 1:24pm

If Laurent would have seen the Cullens and Edward was there, Edward would have heard in Laurents mind that he was in league with Victoria and that would have made the bond between the Cullens & the Denali clan even worse.
If he had promised to come back does that mean that Irina was in on it, I don't think her sisters would have allowed it. Ir reckon Laurent just couldn't hack it as a vegetarian and left the Denali clan and consiquently dumped into Victoria who he felt he owed a favour.