Sincerely, Doc B
I agree I think that Carlisle's father was very strict. Understanding Carlisle and his father's relationship, of course is the key to understanding the Carlisle, that we have all come to know and love. You make a superb point. As boys turn into men they traditionally try to be accepted in their father's eyes.
I think that Carlisle and his father were very different men. And as Stephanie told us at first they both held similar religious beliefs. What we believe powerfully affects what kind of woman or man we are.
Thank you for sharing, Doc
I think that what happened to Carlisle's belief system was provably very similar to what happened to John Wesley. Wesley (the father of the Methodist Church) belonged to the same church that Carlisle's father did. And like Carlise he was a very sensitive man. He wanted to have a close relationship with God. But the more he tried to live a Christian life, the more miserable he became. Because all that he could focus on were his failures. At the end of each day, all that he could think about were the times that he had fallen short of following God's laws.
Then one night he went to a bible study meeting. One that he very much didn't want to attend. His group studied and discussed a verse from Paul's letter to the Romans. (Interestingly it was one of the same verses that changed Martin Luther's life) To paraphrase the verse it said "What you do in life, has nothing to do with God's acceptance of you. God's acceptance, and love of you, totally comes from his grace. (Grace is God's love of all woman and men. It is freely given and all that you need to do is simply accept it..."Amazing Grace") Wesley said that as he walked home, he felt a "warmth in my Chest," as he realized that everything in his life had changed. (PP) Stephanie tells us that something similar happened to Carlise. Quote "Carlisle's beliefs had already started to change from his father's.
And that is how the Carlisle, that we all came to love, came into being. He simply loves others and life. And that is why he can instantly forgive Edward or himself (et all). He can even regret destroying the monster James.
You make great points.
And I think that you are right. I feel that Carlisle did believe in an after life. One that he felt he would be sharing with his WHOLE family.
Thanks for sharing,Doc
Does it matter if Carlisle is a Christian?
It is a collection of beautiful inspiring passages from all of the major religions and philosophies of the world. And it shows that all men and women are drawn to love, forgiveness, and acceptance. Carlisle's beliefs, to me, are one of the reasons that the Saga is so perfect for all of the peoples of the world. As "The Buddha" might have said, "May the force be with you" (Luke, Carlisle, Bella or who ever you are)
Moral of the story: If their beliefs are derived from a loving diety (or belief system) then their "fruits," their lives, shall be loving and beautiful (as Carlisle Cullen's are) But if it is not, it may be the opposite, as Aro's were. .
You certainly are right the 1640s were a volatile time for both England and the Anglican church. But from DAY ONE the Anglican Church was always divided into a conservative "catholic-like faction" and a reformist faction. To me Carlisle's father's sentiments closely parallel those of Jonathan Edward's. As you provably know Edwards theologic stance from his famous sermon; "Sinners in the hands of an angry God."
"There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God."
To me the above 11 "conservative" principles probably made up 90 percent of Reverand Cullen's sermons. Carlisle's transformation from a man who accepted those beliefs, into one who was able to say : (In reference to destroying the monster named James .......to save the lives of his family) "CC to Family: "It pains me to take any sensate life." (PP)
The Cullen Cross: I agree I think that the cross held a special sentimental value for Carlisle as I explained in my response to Shannon.
Thank you for sharing with us, Doc
This is pure speculation, but the things that we do know include;
To me it is interesting that even though Stephie's faith obviously is very important to her that she only indirectly refers to its fundamental beliefs. The advantage to her approach, is that it allows the Saga to be accepted by hundreds of millions of fans around the world who hold different beliefs.
Thanks for your kind compliment. So many of us (Twi-hards) delight in Carlisle. It is fun learning more about him. And thanks for telling me that the Cullen Crest came from his father. For some reason I mistakenly thought that Carlisle had designed it. (I have no idea how I got that impression) But it would be only logical that his family (his father being an educated professional) would have a family crest in 1640 England. And your pointing out how his family's symbols came to be so representative of him is also very insightful. "Courage, Faith, Service, and Loyalty."
Wow! those characteristics certainly fit him to a T. Courage C.C. Quote: "We defend our family" Faith, Quote "I never quit believing." Service Quote, "Serving them (humans) brings me joy." Loyalty, Quote "Edward chose her (Bella) she is one of us now." Your description of Carlisle's provable relationship with his father is just superb and very insightful.
And that she balanced her husband's stiffness. Sadly for both father and son Carlisle's mother died. Now when a mother dies, and a child has characteristics that resemble her, fathers tend to become either closer or more distant. I think that her loss, in Carlisle's case, caused the two of them to be closer.
And it was because of what he came to learn from BOTH of them that he had both the discipline (from his dad) and the sensitivity (A VERY POWERFUL TRAIT) from his mother that gave him the tools to overcome the almost impossible temptations of being a vampire. Edward Quote: "But what Carlisle did was much harder."
As always, thanks for sharing, Doc B